|  Author | Topic: Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms (Read 239 times) |
red
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Karma: 0 |  | Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms
« Thread Started on Nov 3, 2008, 11:40pm » | ![[Quote]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif) |
Was going through ebay.com the other week and came across a seller that was selling a lot of Ali items that came from Steiner. The problem was he was selling a Ali over Liston that was only printed in 2005. As i have one and checked it out and the 2004 and 2005 photos have dates on them. It had the steiner coa nad holograms but no online authentics sticker.
As any Muhammad ali collector should know that when Ali did a private signing with a company since 2000 online authentics would be there.
This photo concerned me but then he listed a photo that i have one of which was done by steiner which was a limited edition of 50. Again no Online sticker or limited edition number also the photo was a different size than it should be. So for steiner to release the photo as a limited edition the photo that the seller listed should not exsist.
Ok so i contacted Steiner about this and guess what they just ignored me as what would i know.
But about a week ago a collector/dealer i know went to steiner to get a few coas reissued as he wanted the new plastic coa's that they issue and they do this for a fee $125us each. All his items where reissued.
So the dealer in question or his supplier found out about this and went to steiner to do the same he walked in with 90 photos without coas. They refused to do the coa's because they realized that they where fake and are know invesigating the dealers with the 90 photo's.
So if you are not sure don't buy don't even trust the good companies as when people want to fake something worth a bit on money nothing will stop them.
This seller is being investigated by steiner.
http://www.goofbay.com/ebay_seller_histo....&gsl_submit.y=8
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Shawn
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Karma: 0 | | Re: Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms
« Reply #1 on Nov 5, 2008, 8:39pm » | |
Very interesting, keep us informed.
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aliautos.com - The greatest Muhammad Ali autograph resource. |
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dave
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| | Re: Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms
« Reply #2 on Feb 4, 2009, 9:08pm » | |
Let me start by saying that I am the seller who you (Red) are spreading the rumors about.I have been collecting,buying and selling since 1997.I have bought and sold hundreds of Ali items..Each with the understanding that they are genuine and in good faith..I buy from Ebay,private sellers,national dealers,auction houses and even had a couple signed in person.I have Steiner,OA,SSG,PSA,MM,JSA,Boxingmem.com,NSA and some with no authentication at all..I bought one particular lot of photos last year which apparently you (Red) had a problem with..I am just a collector not a dealer so for you to assume or hear that I was the dealer who "walked into Steiner" with a load of fakes is simply not true.I have coa's for my items..I live 1000 miles away from Steiner..I have bought a few items without coa's and sent them to steiner for review,replacement coa's and never had a problem...Also why would they tell you they were "investigating someone"...Just to fill you in..There are many Ali items out there with with Steiner certs only..You should not beleive everything you hear or read on the internet as most of it is put out there by people like yourself...I myself see many clearly forged Ali items every week...I also see some that I feel are authentic..if I am not sure and buy I will send it to 3rd party authenticator,I use my own judgement...2 of the photos you questioned were sent to PSA and were passed,a couple of buyers used the Quick Opinion service with no problems...If I thought any of the items I buy were fake I would not even think about turning around and selling them..I have sold for nearly 10 years with 100% positive feedback....If I do see a questionable signature I just move on,I don't cry about it to everyone. I guess you would like everyone to know that you are an expert on the subject also which is fine,just not sure what your obsession with me is..I have never talked to you or sold you a "fake" autograph..Just thought I would inform you of the facts...Facts are what make a story true and not opinions.
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red
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Karma: 0 | | Re: Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms
« Reply #3 on Feb 9, 2009, 2:58am » | |
Hi Dave
Firstly you state that you are only a collector but the amount of items that you where selling i would not call you a collector if you have been "I have been collecting,buying and selling since 1997." " I have sold for nearly 10 years with 100% positive feedback" i think that would make you more of a dealer as you where listing upto 10 high market items every week.
If you read my post correctly i said "So the dealer in question or his supplier found out about this and went to steiner to do the same he walked in with 90 photos without coas. They refused to do the coa's because they realized that they where fake and are know invesigating the dealers with the 90 photo's." maybe the person in question is the person that you got the items from which if you read the post you will see what i said.
"just not sure what your obsession with me is..I have never talked to you or sold you a "fake" autograph.." we have spoken i contacted you about a few of the items you where selling. The Ali over Liston you where selling that had the copyright logo on the bottom right hand corner. You where selling the ones that had the date 2004 or 2005 and signed in silver the Steiner hologram had been placed over the date to cover this. It is well known that in those 2 years when Ali did a private signing there would be a rep from online authentics present and the items would have the online stick on them. Also the signing season was done in a gold pen not a silver pen. Why would Steiner cover the copyright date they never do this. The other item i spoke to you about was the scream photo that was done as a Limited Edition by Steiner of 50 and was a 16" x 20" the one you had listed was a 17" x 19" or something different and was not a limited edition. The scream photo was also a online item but yours was not a oa. Both these item if signed by Ali would 100% have the oa sticker. As onlines first signing season was done with a company in Australia called Autogragh Collectables in 2000 from then anything done in a private signed had a oa sticker.
http://www.onlineauthentics.com/oa/Inter....00001&x=48&y=10
Yes i do know there are items out there with Steiner certs only they where done before online was set up.
"I do see a questionable signature I just move on,I don't cry about it to everyone." yes if there is one questionable item i would think about moving on but when you see so many from the same supplier it makes it a bit hard to just move on.
Have you still got the robe you paid i think $1354 for the UK. With the large signature across the back from online.
"Facts are what make a story true and not opinions. " Is there anything else you would like to talk about.
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red
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« Reply #4 on Apr 17, 2009, 4:23am » | |
Hi dave. I think you should read the following quote it is from the home page of Sport Placement Services
http://www.sportsplacement.com/counterfeit-ali-autographs-flooding-the-market/
"Counterfeit Ali Autographs Flooding the Market
Posted on 08.Apr, 2009 by ©.
Autograph collectors and fans of Muhammad Ali should think twice before spending money to purchase what they believe to be a genuine signature from the Greatest. My company Sports Placement Service Inc. handled the signings and licensing of the Ali name for nearly twenty years. Together with my partner Jerald Gibbs we witnessed Muhammad sign his name over 25,000 times. We have numerous examples of various styles and changes over the years. If anyone has the right to make the following statements it is us. In our opinion there are thousands of fake Ali signatures that are being marketed and sold through various means including online auctions, charity auctions and flea markets. Collectors should be extra careful of items signed Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali aka Cassius Clay.
It has been almost five years since we did our last direct deal with Steiner Sports Marketing and Muhammad Ali. Unfortunately we believe someone has been able to alter Steiner Certificates and are selling fake autographs. This is hurting Steiner, Ali, collectors and fans who are buying crap. The majority of the items signed by Ali over the past nine years have been witnessed by a representative of SPS and come with a certificate from OnlineAuthentics.com.
There are many people who do sell real autographs and this is not to slam or harm those who do. With the down economy items have hit the market in greater numbers; collectors are selling items from their personal collections. If you are being offered Ali or Clay product in quantity at a selling price of $600-$1000 chances are it is not real. Buyers should do their research and know who they are buying from and if there is a full 100 percent money back guarantee when it comes to the authenticity of the signature.
I took the time to write this because the fake Ali autographs have hurt my business, the value of my own collection and frustrated me to no end.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 8th, 2009 at 7:30 pm and is filed under News, Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Responses are currently closed, but you can trackback from your own site.
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red
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Karma: 0 | | Re: Muhammad Ali Steiner Faked Coas and holograms
« Reply #5 on Aug 11, 2009, 5:31am » | |
Here is a very interesting read it is about a seller who is selling the scream photo that has a steiner hologram that is fake
http://steinerforgeries.com/
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